TONY KAYE IN CONVERSATION

“I had taken on the system, and I wanted to completely go against it. But wanting it was one thing... achieving it turned out to be completely shocking to me.”

Story and Photography HERO BEAN STEVENSON

Copy Editor OLIVIA BENNETT | Editorial Intern JACKSON BEIN

In the shadowy hours just before midnight, I stepped into a London hotel where Tony Kaye, the director famed for his work on American History X — a polarizing story of racism and redemption — had temporarily transformed it into his creative sanctuary. Before dreams could take hold, a message from Kaye arrived: "Meet me at 6:30 a.m. downstairs. Rest well, H." This directive set the tone for our encounter, which would delve deep into the heart of a man whose career has been as tumultuous as it has been brilliant.

Tony Kaye, a maverick in the realms of cinema, music videos, and commercials, has left an indelible mark on visual storytelling. From the hypnotic allure of the 1993 UK Dunlop Tyres ad, pulsating to the rhythm of The Velvet Underground, to the haunting roster of celebrities in Johnny Cash's music video ‘God’s Gonna Cut You Down,’ Kaye's work is nothing short of iconic. His films, like the gripping Detachment, chronicling a despairing substitute teacher in turmoil, and the contentious Lake of Fire, dissecting America’s abortion debate, showcase a filmmaker unafraid to confront and challenge societal norms.

My acquaintance with Kaye dates back to May of 2019, long before I had delved into his cinematic oeuvre, recognizing him initially as the enigmatic figure with a warlock-like beard who wandered the canyon roads near my Los Angeles residence, guitar in hand. His presence stirred curiosity: Was his shelter under the freeway's concrete arches? Or within the towering structures' shadows? Were his layers of black a medley of random finds? Or carefully chosen Yohji Yamamoto pieces? This curiosity turned into reality in London, under the stark fluorescent lights of a hotel breakfast hall, where we finally sat down to talk amidst a backdrop of early risers nursing their jet lag with coffee sips and newspaper rustles.

Our conversation revealed a Tony Kaye who has embarked on a private and professional renaissance in preparation for the release of The Trainer, his latest collaboration with art dealer Vito Schnabel. Starring Julia Fox and Steven Van Zandt, this project ushers in a pivotal moment sparked by its focus on Jack Flex (played by Schnabel), a former fitness star fallen on hard times in Los Angeles. Over eight days of frantic attempts to achieve fame and success, the film weaves a narrative that resonates deeply with Kaye. "This movie has kind of changed my life," he admits. "In many ways, this character has laid bare the consequences of my past decisions.”

Reflecting on his turbulent journey, Kaye draws a line between his past and Jack's quest. "I challenged the system with American History X, aiming for self-destruction and defiance of normality. Yet, the reality of achieving this shocked me," he admits. This honesty underscores the link between his rebellion and The Trainer's plot, where Jack's struggle for recognition echoes Kaye's battles with Hollywood and his search for genuineness. "It’s always been about performance and acting more than anything," he observes, noting his initial attraction to the raw energy of American actors — a quality he sees perfectly embodied by Schnabel in the film.

Kaye's relationship with his legend is complex. He openly regrets the fallout from American History X, a project that, despite its critical acclaim, became a source of personal turmoil due to disputes over its final cut. "When they released what I felt was an unfinished film, I couldn’t handle having my name attached to it," he laments. "I went on an angry rampage, saying that Edward Norton had recut the movie, which wasn’t true. I feel bad about that now." This chapter began what Kaye describes as a "one-man crusade against Hollywood," a rebellion fueled by a desire to dismantle and reconstruct his identity within and outside the industry.

"Honestly," he begins, "all these things I did had no singular message. I just had all these desires and mixtures of feelings. I wanted to do anything I could to change the world." Kaye leans back, his gaze drifting momentarily. "Looking back, I’ve been part activist, part out of control, part lost soul, and part rock and roll devotee. I had no grand plan. I had no destination or idea of where I was going.”

His collaboration with Schnabel on The Trainer exemplifies this shift, marking a transformative period of mutual creativity and learning that profoundly impacts Kaye's artistic and personal path. "For The Trainer, I’m interested in helping to create the best character I can for the film's sake. None of it has anything to do with hype or conceptual artistry. And it’s not because I’m in a more peaceful place. I’m just hungrier than I ever was.”

As our dialogue transitioned from the confines of the fluorescent-lit breakfast hall to the mystical expanses of Silbury Hill, the director’s evolution from provocateur to philosopher became evident. His current pursuits in drawing, painting, and music signify a shift from the ephemeral to the tangible, from spectacle to substance. Kaye, once a performer in the grand theater of public attention, now seeks authenticity in the quietude of creation.

Reflecting on his storied legacy and the horizon of his future, Kaye contemplates what he describes as the "big third act" of his life — where his diverse talents and yearning for authentic connections and expressions find harmony. Now, at 71, he finds himself on the cusp of new discoveries. "I am searching for myself and an audience simultaneously," he shares. "Previously, I played the role of an actor. That chapter has closed. Now, I stand before you, simply as myself.”

Seeking to probe deeper, I asked, "And who is that, Tony?" In response, as he peeled away the vestiges of his past, he offered a challenge rather than a direct answer: "Well, that’s for you to decide."